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xvxvx 11 hours ago [-]
I spent 2 weeks in the UK recently and they are light years ahead of the US in terms of veganism and cruelty free products. I was actually quite shocked about how many options the grocery stores had and how almost every restaurant had a vegan option, or even a vegan menu.
The trend in the US has been to hide the word ‘vegan’ from consumers and bury it in their website somewhere. Not so in the UK. Brands seem super happy about showing which products in their selection are vegan. No list of ‘secretly/accidentally vegan’ products over there, they happily let you know right in the packaging.
People there are generally more aware of veganism too. No need to explain what it is like I constantly do in the US. ‘Can vegans eat eggs?’ What part of ‘no animal products’ don’t you understand?
PeterHolzwarth 10 hours ago [-]
I think veganism in America went through a popular phase, then simply faded as a pop concept. Perhaps your experiences in the UK merely reflect that, there, it is just going through a temporary uptick of fad.
userbinator 8 hours ago [-]
People have gotten sick of the constant virtue-signaling.
kubb 7 hours ago [-]
That would suggest a fundamental difference in practical ethics between the two cultures.
It sounds like people over there in America don’t do things because they enjoy doing them or because they’re convinced that those are the right things to do, but rather they do them to impress others or improve their social standing.
It doesn’t sound right to me, I mean a culture can’t be so totally obsessed with the self.
drivingmenuts 2 hours ago [-]
> It doesn’t sound right to me, I mean a culture can’t be so totally obsessed with the self.
One of our (the US) early political mottoes is "Don't Tread On Me" and it has a flag.
And, yes, we can be and to varying degrees, are. Which is why we can't get along with ourselves very well, much less everyone else.
We're tetchy.
kubb 1 hours ago [-]
Right, but that would mean the „Don’t tread on me” motto is also a type of persona assumed (like veganism) by people who like being perceived as tough and unruly because that’s respected.
(I guess „persona” would be a better word for it than „the self”.)
InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago [-]
I think you've pinpointed the reason, although unintentionally: the US is so focused on culture wars that people can't visibly follow a vegan diet without being attacked for it.
mold_aid 57 minutes ago [-]
Yes, people in the US definitely have trouble with virtue.
Leonard_of_Q 44 minutes ago [-]
You forgot 'signalling' which is what people in the West - not just the USA - are tired of. I know I am tired of it and I'm neither an American nor in the USA.
Stating that a whole country has problems with virtue is rather stigmatising and something you'd complain about if it were about any country in what some have taken to call the "global South".
mold_aid 30 minutes ago [-]
>is rather stigmatising
Oh you went with the "rather" instead of the "quite" that's interesting. Anyway if vegans want to say "I am vegan" you'd profit from taking just a second to ask yourself why you get reflexively pissy about it.
PeterHolzwarth 7 hours ago [-]
And then they get un-sick of it. Fads come and go, constantly re-inventing themselves and getting rediscovered.
bestouff 8 hours ago [-]
It's been there for decades.
PeterHolzwarth 7 hours ago [-]
It's been everywhere for decades - that's not the point. It's fadishness that is what may be going on here: restaurants are the tip of the spear of new trends.
conception 8 hours ago [-]
That’s interesting. I wonder if that’s a byproduct of the strong Indian influences? I would imagine its popular there as well.
kurthr 8 hours ago [-]
Hindu drink milk and eat cheese, butter, and honey. Not vegan.
orbisvicis 7 hours ago [-]
I know vegans who consume dairy/eggs once they become responsible for the husbandry of those sources.
zxexz 7 hours ago [-]
I wish this form of Veganism was more well-known. I know a few Vegans who went down a similar path and who were told by a few people they were no longer Vegan. They took the easier path and stopped calling themselves Vegans, which I thought was sad given their objectives when becoming Vegan were clear from the get-go.
kurthr 6 hours ago [-]
I think it's often called ovo-lacto vegetarian.
There are also pescetarians.
Imustaskforhelp 7 hours ago [-]
I wish more Vegans were able to accept this form of spectrum that you are talking about. Food is quite a social thing.
JaidenAnimation has done a great video[0] summarizing something like this of her vegan journey and exactly this type of nuance as well, I highly recommend checking it out
Let me give you a personal example as well, I am Hindu and Milk is very very preferred where I live. Due to my taste preference, I dislike Milk but I am really expected to have something milk based so I like Yogurt.
Even just this small act of preference of yogurt rather than Milk which could seem pretty small has genuinely left my relatives asking many many questions and I am sometimes forced to drink milk when I go to people when I would prefer otherwise because of social pressure.
I can probably take vegan yogurt if I particularly want so but we take milk fresh from the milkman who owns the cow in their house. where I live, the way people treat animals in their house is a very ethical point of view, its basically like how pets are except they help in livelihood/income
So I have some sympathies to people who you are talking about. There is enough social pressure from the people around you.
More broadly speaking, Veganism might perhaps land better as a spectrum rather than a binary switch. It has a lot of things going for it which could help its future but at the same time, it gets a large amount of flack from a loud minority and bad clips
There is a concept that my maternal grandmother had that they would always having their own husbandry (cows/buffalos) within her village and yes, they didn't eat eggs as well.
My maternal grandfather was a teacher which was a really prestigious job at that time, the only reason that they had their own cows was because of the belief. Reflecting upon it now, I believe it to be a good faith belief, they took care of the animals as well in terms of personal care from what I've heard of stories growing up, my mother still remembers some of the cows/buffalos and their names and other things so that's nice to hear as well :)
akdor1154 7 hours ago [-]
Jains would be vegan though i assume?
kurthr 6 hours ago [-]
I don't know any Jain well, but I believe they drink milk and fermentation products, but do not consume honey. Open to correction.
wtmt 35 minutes ago [-]
Jains in India are heavy consumers of dairy products. They consume honey too. Most of them would avoid vegetables that grow underground and avoid the use of leather. They’re generally a bit closer to orthodox Hindus in practice.
SuperNinKenDo 7 hours ago [-]
I was kind of surprised when I traveled to NY and SF from Melbourne. I knew Melbourne was fairly up there in vego/vegan friendliness, but took it for granted that NY and SF would be a cakewalk. Hardly appalling, but there were times I could not eat anything on the menu at some places and I'm only vegetarian, and in many instances I had only a single option. Was a little strange.
burnt-resistor 48 minutes ago [-]
Not providing vegan options is morally equivalent to forcing Jews to have pork or non-Kosher meals or Muslims pork or non-Halal meals; it's mean spirited, insensitive, and/or disrespectful treatment. Plus, there are many major religious/ethnic groups that skew towards mandatory and high probability of veganism.
PSA: Meat ag is a danger to us all just on rational grounds: antibiotic resistance (bacteria evolution), pandemics (viral evolution), air-water-soil pollution, and climate change. For most Westerners, we have all kinds of food choices that are perfectly nutritious without inflicting all of the risks of unnecessary demand for meat. It will hopefully be eventually viewed in the distant future with such disdain and repugnance as cannibalism or consuming pets or exotic animals.
Gathering6678 6 hours ago [-]
(1) An inmate is not allowed (essentially, by the society) a specific diet dictated by his/her belief; and,
(2) A poor person cannot afford (essentially, because of the society) a nutritious and delicious meal dictated by his/her needs or wants.
What are the differences between them? Are there differences at all?
4 hours ago [-]
joeconway 7 hours ago [-]
Good
moi2388 7 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago [-]
They didn't order a specific meal, they asked for specific items to be excluded from their meals. I'm often cooking for vegans, and it's really not that fricken difficult.
pdpi 6 hours ago [-]
Doesn’t seem like these two guys were vegan for Instagram internet points or for following a trend. They’re not trying to game the system for steak, medium rare. Their dietary restrictions are part of a larger belief system — they’re vegans because it’s the only diet consistent with their beliefs about animal rights.
Irrespectively of my own personal opinion on ethical veganism, if it’s a sincerely held belief, it should be treated the same as, say, a Jewish inmate requesting to eat kosher, or a Muslim inmate requesting to eat halal. A prison sentence shouldn’t effectively force you to break with those beliefs.
moi2388 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
7 hours ago [-]
red75prime 6 hours ago [-]
They probably can't order tofu. It would be B12-fortified oatmeal or something like this.
cute_boi 6 hours ago [-]
I think you are being ridiculous here. Rare steak is expensive compared to rice and beans. And providing vegan meal is super easy.
SuperNinKenDo 7 hours ago [-]
What a ridiculous comment.
kelseyfrog 7 hours ago [-]
Do you hold any philosophical beliefs? If so, would you be willing to share them?
The trend in the US has been to hide the word ‘vegan’ from consumers and bury it in their website somewhere. Not so in the UK. Brands seem super happy about showing which products in their selection are vegan. No list of ‘secretly/accidentally vegan’ products over there, they happily let you know right in the packaging.
People there are generally more aware of veganism too. No need to explain what it is like I constantly do in the US. ‘Can vegans eat eggs?’ What part of ‘no animal products’ don’t you understand?
It sounds like people over there in America don’t do things because they enjoy doing them or because they’re convinced that those are the right things to do, but rather they do them to impress others or improve their social standing.
It doesn’t sound right to me, I mean a culture can’t be so totally obsessed with the self.
One of our (the US) early political mottoes is "Don't Tread On Me" and it has a flag.
And, yes, we can be and to varying degrees, are. Which is why we can't get along with ourselves very well, much less everyone else.
We're tetchy.
(I guess „persona” would be a better word for it than „the self”.)
Stating that a whole country has problems with virtue is rather stigmatising and something you'd complain about if it were about any country in what some have taken to call the "global South".
Oh you went with the "rather" instead of the "quite" that's interesting. Anyway if vegans want to say "I am vegan" you'd profit from taking just a second to ask yourself why you get reflexively pissy about it.
JaidenAnimation has done a great video[0] summarizing something like this of her vegan journey and exactly this type of nuance as well, I highly recommend checking it out
Let me give you a personal example as well, I am Hindu and Milk is very very preferred where I live. Due to my taste preference, I dislike Milk but I am really expected to have something milk based so I like Yogurt.
Even just this small act of preference of yogurt rather than Milk which could seem pretty small has genuinely left my relatives asking many many questions and I am sometimes forced to drink milk when I go to people when I would prefer otherwise because of social pressure.
I can probably take vegan yogurt if I particularly want so but we take milk fresh from the milkman who owns the cow in their house. where I live, the way people treat animals in their house is a very ethical point of view, its basically like how pets are except they help in livelihood/income
So I have some sympathies to people who you are talking about. There is enough social pressure from the people around you.
More broadly speaking, Veganism might perhaps land better as a spectrum rather than a binary switch. It has a lot of things going for it which could help its future but at the same time, it gets a large amount of flack from a loud minority and bad clips
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gKJ9mMPuIQ
My maternal grandfather was a teacher which was a really prestigious job at that time, the only reason that they had their own cows was because of the belief. Reflecting upon it now, I believe it to be a good faith belief, they took care of the animals as well in terms of personal care from what I've heard of stories growing up, my mother still remembers some of the cows/buffalos and their names and other things so that's nice to hear as well :)
PSA: Meat ag is a danger to us all just on rational grounds: antibiotic resistance (bacteria evolution), pandemics (viral evolution), air-water-soil pollution, and climate change. For most Westerners, we have all kinds of food choices that are perfectly nutritious without inflicting all of the risks of unnecessary demand for meat. It will hopefully be eventually viewed in the distant future with such disdain and repugnance as cannibalism or consuming pets or exotic animals.
What are the differences between them? Are there differences at all?
Irrespectively of my own personal opinion on ethical veganism, if it’s a sincerely held belief, it should be treated the same as, say, a Jewish inmate requesting to eat kosher, or a Muslim inmate requesting to eat halal. A prison sentence shouldn’t effectively force you to break with those beliefs.